It is a shame... It is a shame for organizers and officials of Naviga for such organisation of the World championship in Leno. I the first time participated,
but I do not want it is more... 
It is a shame...
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 henvis |
It is a shame... |
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Posts: 23 (08/22/08 06:46:31) |
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BoBoKwok |
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Posts: 679 (08/22/08 08:13:42) |
Be generous
We have many reasons not to go to the World Championship We need only one reason to keep going. "We like boating" I did see Naviga Offical, Italian Organizer and many volunteers rushing around all the time. Appreciate everyone who ever devoted themselves to WC2008 |
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Dave Marles |
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Posts: 835 (08/22/08 12:45:23) |
Sorry Bobo but would be nice to see some apology by the Italian organisers for the chaos of the 2008 World Championships. From the first moments we had refusal
of 2.4 which clearly could have been used, then we have the ripoff farce of the camping when we were charged extortionate rates for camping in a stinking zoo.
Then we have a computer operated lapscoring system that was not correctly operated with clearly inaccurate lapscores. Then of course as usual we have no
practice facilities. We have the crazy situation of practice for the Finals of 10 minutes per boat when clearly there was lots more time left for an extension
of the practice time and no one could be bothered to resolve that situation even though in 3.5 it was impossible to run because of the debris on the water
after the mini windstorm. The Brits running the practice session were willing to continue but were not allowed to even though we were nowhere near the cutoff
time of 8pm. Clearly those 'in the know' had practice lake facilities when the majority of us had to endure the farce of the evening practice sessions.
Not good enough and unfair. We MUST have proper practice in future and Naviga officials must do something about this. We complain about this time after time
but still nothing is done.
In my opinion there was far too much emphasis on trying to disqualify people instead of encouraging competitors. Not good enough. I have been to many Worlds Champs and do not expect perfection but do expect a passable standard and I never complain, just get on with racing but this time it was too much.
Dave
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BoBoKwok |
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Posts: 680 (08/22/08 22:41:37) |
Never mind Dave. We all have our opinion.
I do not know the rip off farce of camping but the travel agency does rip off ourselves. Hotel offer 60euro/day but agency take 90euro.
Was the extra cost of camping for the entry of zoo?
I do not know 2.4G could have been used. Very strange.
Lap counting was a problem for I was actually the TQ in V7.5. I lose at least 1 lap. Peter checked my lap time and found that I got 2 laps more than 40s and he said someone in my heat claimed losing of 4 laps. Ian was in the same heat with me and won the heat on paper. He agree that it was Mr.BoBo who won the heat. No correction was made and I did not fight. I was in the final anyway. Perhaps I should had fight for it so that I could be away from the crash in the first lap of V7.5 final. :P Race scheudle was not post on the notice board. Someone in Team China missed his race for he did not know the last group became the first group. I agree with you regarding training. People come by plane need training very much. We can not use our own fuel and the climate can be very different. My team mate was disqualified in 2nd heat of H3.5 final. The reason was "registration no. on sponson, not on body" He passed the boat check and was allowed to race in 4 qualifying heats and 1st heat in the final with the same boat. He has reg. no. sticker with him but he was not allowed to put it on the pontoon. Was it necessary? A necessary action was not done. The same guy still yell on the pontoon. I have done all necessary procedures but failed. People like to keep away from this hot potato. Fine, I promised myself I will do it in my way if it happen to me again. Lucky that I don't have to show my way this year.
Beside, I have very bad experience in questura when I went there to do something for
Team China. The officer shouted to me and treat me like criminal.
Finally the KLM farce
I don't want to discourage people to go to our World Championship for one time bad experience.
I will keep going until one day I can not afford anymore
The WC2008 is overed anyway. Apology change nothing.
I hope Naviga and future organizer can learn from it so that our future is better.
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henvis |
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Posts: 24 (08/22/08 23:29:58) |
I participated many years in races of automodels. Our club competitions have been organised much better than the World championship in boats.
1. In Italy (and all over the world) the strip 2.4 to 10mW is resolved. Organizers did not know it? 2. On the European championships and the World TWO independent systems of calculation of laps are always used. NAVIGA does not know about it? 3. On the European championships and the World should be a light board to see results alive! For boats it is not obligatory? 4. Official trainings should be organised in groups and with timing! It for boats too is not necessary? It was simply BIG chaos instead of competitions...
Last Edited By: henvis
08/23/08 00:35:26.
Edited 1 times.
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henvis |
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Posts: 25 (08/22/08 23:41:59) |
I would agree to pay starting payment 150,- EUR that the championship has been organised professionally...
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alan whitaker |
Leno 2008 | ||
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Posts: 167 (08/23/08 00:56:05) |
Hi All.
Good things bad things,not sure about the "stinking zoo"( did see a post removed by admin for remarks about the flies and smell?), We all new it would not be perfect, time now to set in motion requirements for W/Cs, all the score boards and equipment are out there it is time we all started to make sure they are on site for the W/Cs, Don't know how much was due to lack of money or help but it could have been better. I think the few who were running the event did well with the help they got, just so many Italian clubs / people who could have helped them did not. Alan |
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Dave Marles |
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Posts: 836 (08/23/08 02:02:11) |
Of course the few Italians running the event worked very hard to do their best but it should never have got to that stage and why were their countrymen were
not helping?
How is it possible for the AMB scores to be wrong? I can tell you, because there was human interference in the starting and finishing of the races. Crazy. Even in our club events in UK using AMB the races are fully automatic and so we know who is first, second and third etc. We had the farce in the junior 3.5 of 13 finalists because the lapscores could not be decided accurately for 12th and 13th. Personally I raced 20 minutes in 15cc which would normally place me in the top 3 or 4 of the final and I placed 13th, when one person I passed twice was in the final. What was that all about? I agree that its in the past and we must look to the future but we cannot just forget the happenings in Italy 2008 because lessons must be learned.
Dave
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alan whitaker |
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Posts: 168 (08/23/08 03:12:33) |
Hi All
I think there will be a lot of comments about Leno, I think months ago the organisers new this was going to happen, why did they not say to all the teams they were having problems and needed help.
Many things not perfect as you say Dave but now is the time to make sure next time is as perfect as we can get it.
Now is the time for NAVIGA to step up and if needed put money and extra help when needed, Peter Shaft was exhausted on many occasions and should be praised for all his hard work on our behalf but with all Peters efforts things did not get any better.
Time to move on and look to 2010 in Hungary so if you are looking Hungary don't wait until it is to late ask for help and equipment ask now.
One thing is a Hungary W/Cs forum where you can ask questions and get an answer long before you get there,
there were many questions asked before hand but not many answers or information given out from the Leno team.
Alan |
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Bart Drieghe |
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Posts: 347 (08/24/08 09:39:31) |
Well we can say a lot about Leno ,
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alan whitaker |
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Posts: 171 (08/24/08 10:54:57) |
Hi Bart
The Hungarian people were there so I guess they had all the same problems too, think is there has been many races at Leno, so it is not like it is new to them, just down to the help they had from the rest of there boaters in Italy, shame on you. Alan |
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henvis |
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Posts: 26 (08/24/08 21:29:43) |
I think that in Hungary will not be differently... This bad tradition occurs from NAVIGA. NAVIGA has not formulated the requirement for organizers, has no way
(or does not want?) it to control, does not provide financing of the organisation of competitions. Participants always will be hostages of organizers - nobody
can guarantee (NAVIGA too) that organizers of the championship in Hungary will make it better.
All of us in the power of God and... The organizer. Between God and the organizer - an empty place!
Last Edited By: henvis
08/24/08 21:53:14.
Edited 1 times.
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gbeg1 |
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Posts: 54 (08/25/08 01:04:27) |
Henvis, i think you are rather outspoken on the matter speaking as though you have lots of experience of Naviga events when as you stated it was your first WC.
There is no bad tradition as WC's have always ran well and felt a special event. Italy was the exeption and i'm positive that there will not be another
occurance like this.
I have competed/attended every WC's since 1998, and all have there slight criticisms but the great points well over way these. Each event was run and organized well by the country holding the event. Regards,
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BoBoKwok |
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Posts: 681 (08/25/08 01:23:26) |
I totally agree with gbeg1.
I have been competing in Naviga World Championship since 1994 Many people here are more experienced than myself. None of the WC was perfect but most of them organized very well |
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alan whitaker |
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Posts: 172 (08/25/08 01:42:59) |
Hi All
Leon and Bo Bo are right there is no perfect solution to the W/Cs, I have been going since Austria 1990, and
there are always slight criticisms.
I know Hungary will be better not prefect but 2 years to get it as near as. So time to leave Italy alone I an sure the people who ran the W/Cs as best as they could don't need any agro from the rest of us.
Alan |
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LubomirSz |
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Posts: 6 (08/25/08 02:15:31) |
Regarding to competitions in Hungary - in discussion before I add some information about Oroshaza (place of next WC). They started with AMBrc lap counting
there this spring only, but I can say, it worked better than in Leno. In Hungary always (each national competition) at least 2 different countings are done.
Last competition in Kecskemet was only 2 weeks before Leno, they counted with AMBrc and made also a voise record of passed boats.
I am in touch with organizers from Oroshaza and therefore I can prove, that they already started with WC 2010 preparation. Next year Open European Championship will be there as a final test for WC, everyone can attend and make the his own opinion. I have attended couple of WCs as well. The is no similarity with Leno. No one was perfect, but Leno was horrible. |
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henvis |
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Posts: 27 (08/25/08 03:36:57) |
Likely my bad mood because I saw only one (not the most good) WC. But the federation should have identical standards for all organizers. Where I can read
it?
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Fredde Cederberg |
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Posts: 349 (08/25/08 06:56:01) |
Italy was Italy, the strange thing is that the races before in Leno was better then the WC, 1 big problem is the small guy that want's to be head chief all
the time instead of beeing smooth.
I belive that Hungary will be great, pics looks really nice. Bobo- I was top qualified :-) lol By the way, we have better organization with the lapcounting also in Sweden on our races....actually there was some voices raised on the way home to organize it in Sweden 2012...we have to see about that. |
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BoBoKwok |
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Posts: 685 (08/25/08 07:05:55) |
Fredde, you are not generous
Took 2 medals but did not leave me the TQ. If I were safe out of that buoy 4, story could be rewritten :'(
Last Edited By: BoBoKwok
08/25/08 18:01:26.
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Robert Daniel |
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Posts: 175 (08/25/08 08:56:07) |
The choice for the 2008 WC's was either Italy or Italy, it was a case of go there or go nowhere. Before offering to stage such an event surely an
association should be sure of the amount of help they are going to get from their collegues. Where were all the Italians, you could count the ones helping on
one hand, how the others could just stand around looking after their own self interest whilst chaos reigned I do not know.
Some people seemed to have had access to private training lakes, very nice for them, there were people flying in using unfamiliar fuel who had to try and set a boat up in a 10min training session. Bobo's report of the Hydro guy getting disqualified from the final because of his number, this is disgraceful. What was the official thinking about not allowing the competitor to make things acceptable. This was supposed to be a friendly sporting occasion not a letter of the law situation. As for Dave and the zoo, you obviously needed to get there early to get pole position next to the donkeys, glad I only arrived for the 2nd week. |
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BoBoKwok |
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Posts: 686 (08/25/08 22:51:06) |
I heard of the secret training lake but I did not have further info
In the training session before first heat I only have time to test whether the plug can stay alive or not. No time to care about throttling, pipe length, head shime I was doing 3 classes. I need training very much so that I stay around the pontoon all day long just to check what time the registration started. I bend a rudder in V15 official finalist training. I have to replace it but I got no training lake to set the correct rudder rate. A training lake help improving racing level so that the need is reasonable. When training lake is not available just open the racing water for more training. I did not expect I have to fight for a basic need.
Last Edited By: BoBoKwok
08/26/08 00:23:06.
Edited 1 times.
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